Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

31

Quick Questions For When A JW Knocks Your Door

by besty in

anybody like to contribute a few suggested questions - should be less that 12 words.. .

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Watchtower is kicking people out again, in the name of LOVE?

by Bethelite Elder in

jw
friends

right now at bethel, they are laying off and reassigning again.

if you have cancer or some other illness, you are a liability and it's time to pack.

i remember the night when we had the special talk about there being a great need in the field and some would be sent out.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for the inside info, BE. The whole Bethel-downsizing issue is pretty big, and I don't think it's on the radar of a lot of the brothers and sisters.

Growing up as a JW, I always heard that if you went to Bethel, you were expected to treat it as your career. The implication was if you did a good job, then you were guaranteed a position--until you got married, of course.

But apparently, it isn't that way anymore. Not a lot of job security in Bethel Inc. I feel bad for these folks getting tossed out on their rear ends. It's tough to adjust from institutional life to the "real world"...and $600 per month won't go very far.

One more thing, BE: there is an undercurrent of racial inequity in your post. From your vantage point, does it appear that some racial groups (whites) are getting preferential treatment?

42

Friday DC Releases

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

end of morning program, dvd video released: "the wonders of creation reveal god's glory".

end of afternoon program, announced upcoming release of a new songbook: "sing to jehovah".

excuse me while i go barf now.. b the x.

Olin Moyles Ghost

@Isaac: can you give us a synopsis of the new video? From the title, it sounds like an anti-evolution film. Is that the theme?

55

Class action suit for pain, suffering & discrimination

by lettib74 in

jw
friends

i am very interested in filing a class action law suit against the society for pain, suffering and outright discrimination.

i know that my situation is not unique one and i have several people who are interested in joining this suit.

i have contacted a lawyer in hopes to get the ball rolling.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Not sure what country you're in--you mentioned your Mexican family, so I assume you're in Mexico or the U.S. I can't speak for Mexico, but in the U.S., you will face an uphill battle.

The WT has a great record of defending itself against suits brought by victims of its disfellowshipping practice. U.S. courts of appeal have held that the WT practice of shunning is protected by the First Amendment. Of course, you should feel free to talk to a lawyer about the specifics of your case. My guess is that he won't have good news for you...but who knows?

12

The TED Thread

by sweet pea in

jw
friends

the antidote to brother ted's version of education........ www.ted.com.

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Olin Moyles Ghost

Here's one of my favorite TED talks. Completely obliterates the idea that we're living in The Last Days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk

Here is the essay on which the talk is based: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html

18

2008 Generation Change

by cognac in

i don't pay to much attention to jw stuff and so i don't know what this change was.

can anybody inform me?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Midwich Cuckoo: 1914 is still very important in JW theology. Like SirNose said, it's the year Jesus began ruling as king, and it's the beginning of "The Last Days." But it no longer has any direct connection to the timing of "The End."

Until 1995, JWs could comfortably say that there was a limited amount of time before The End--it had to come before everyone who saw the events of 1914 died. Since 1995, that is no longer the case.

426

One of the Governing Body had a stroke yesterday

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

on may 19th, theodore jaracz had a stroke.

he's in very serious condition in the hospital.. that's all the information i have for now.. barb.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Barbara, thanks for your insider's insight. Your "fair and balanced" presentation lends weight to your position. It's good for all of us to remember that the WTS is a man-made organization--nothing more and nothing less. Just like any other man-made organization, such as General Electric, the Republican party, or the Boston Red Sox, it's neither all-good nor all-bad.

The organization includes good people who do good things. This doesn't excuse the harm that is done by the policies of the organization. But we do ourselves a disservice and damage our credibility when we fail to recognize that there are some good people in the org--even in positions of power.

18

2008 Generation Change

by cognac in

i don't pay to much attention to jw stuff and so i don't know what this change was.

can anybody inform me?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

The 2008 generation change is best explained in the context of the Society's previous positions on the "generation" of Luke 21.

In Luke 21:32, Jesus said that 'this generation will not pass away until all these things occur.' For decades, the WTS taught that Jesus was referring to the generation of people who saw the events of 1914. The WTS taught that there would be some people from that generation alive when the end came.

Well, in 1995, the end still had not come, so the WTS changed its teaching on "generation." They now taught that Jesus just meant "wicked people" when he said "generation." And, most importantly, generation was no longer tied to 1914. In other words, everybody who was alive in 1914 could be dead before the end comes.

In April 2008, the WTS tweaked its generation teaching once more. But this "new light" was not nearly as significant as the 1995 change. In 2008, the WTS said that "generation" as used by Jesus in Luke 21 didn't really mean "wicked people"--rather he meant "anointed Christians." But it is important to note that this did not change the 1995 understanding regarding 1914. In other words, the party line is still that everybody alive in 1914 could die before the end comes.

Of course, the Society still teaches the end is right around the corner. But there is no temporal boundary--no date or other marker by which the end must come.

6

what is MARKING about now....talks...or personal opinion??

by oompa in

jw
friends

Olin Moyles Ghost

The official position is that it involves a talk. Atlantis reproduced the relevant chapter from the Organized book (issued in 2004/05) on this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175857/1/Question-about-marking-in-the-congregation

I'll take the liberty of quoting it here:

MARKING DISORDERLY ONES

In his second letter to the Thessalonians, Paul warned of certain ones who were walking disorderly and who if accorded good standing in the congregation could exert an unhealthy influence. Paul admonished the Thessalonian Christians "to withdraw from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition you received from us." He further clarified that statement by writing: "If anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother."?2 Thess. 3:6,14,15.

Occasionally, someone not known to be guilty of practicing a grave sin for which he could be expelled nevertheless displays flagrant disregard for theocratic order. This could include such things as being grossly lazy or critical, being a profitless talker who is a constant 'meddler with what does not concern him.' (2 Thess. 3:11) Or this could include one who is scheming to take material advantage of others or indulging in entertainment that is clearly improper. The disorderly conduct is not so minor that it can be handled by applying Bible counsel and manifesting love; rather, it is serious enough to reflect badly on the congregation and potentially to spread to other Christians.

After giving repeated admonition to such an individual and finding that he persists in disregarding well-established Bible principles, the elders may decide that a talk should be given to the congregation providing appropriate counsel concerning such disorderly conduct. Elders will use reasonableness and discernment in determining whether a particular situation is sufficiently serious and disturbing to require a warning talk. This talk will not name the disorderly one. However, those who are aware of the situation described in the talk will take heed and limit their social contacts with such individuals.

The loving concern and firm stand of faithful members of the congregation could indeed move the disorderly one to shame and repentance. When it is clearly evident that the individual has abandoned his disorderly course, it would no longer be necessary to treat him as a marked individual.

22

Question about "marking" in the congregation

by Olin Moyles Ghost in

can one of the resident scholars settle a disagreement about the current jw practice of "marking"?.

my understanding is that marking works this way: suppose annie is a jw who persists in an activity that is strongly frowned upon by the society--but is not a df-ing offense (for example, she is dating a non-witness), then annie gets counseled by the elders.

if annie continues to date the unbeliever, then the elders may decide to "mark" her.

Olin Moyles Ghost

@Atlantis, thanks for the info. Looks like the official policy is still as I recall it. And, if I recall correctly, the Organized book was issued in 2004/05. So, the material quoted by Atlantis is fairly current.

Of course, as several have recounted, it can work out differently in practice.